
              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7  Num. 17
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                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")
 
 
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BOSNIA: HOW THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND MEDIA
HAVE FAILED AND MISLED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
==========================================
 
Special thanks to my "Chicago connection" for sending a videotape 
of a public access program, "Broadsides", which was taped on June 
6, 1995. Host is Mr. Sherman Skolnick of the Citizens' Committee 
to Clean Up the Courts; co-host is Mr. Robert E. Cleveland, an 
attorney and associate of Mr. Skolnick. Guests are James Nagle, 
an attorney with the law firm of Querry & Harrow, Andrew B. 
Spiegel, also an attorney, and Mike Pavlovic, a Serbian-American.
 
Pardon spelling errors. If you know the correct spellings, please 
let me know.
 
Contact info: Andrew B. Spiegel, PO Box 396, Wheaton, IL 60187
 
 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
 
[...continued...]
 
ANDREW SPIEGEL [continues]:
What's happening now [June 1995] is, the U.N. wants to divide up 
Bosnia, to separate Bosnia. To give the Serbs a portion of the 
country, the Bosnians a portion of the country...
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
On what legal basis? You're an expert in International Law. On 
what basis is the U.N... I mean, did they pass something in the 
General Assembly or the Security Council?
 
 
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
They've passed numerous resolutions in the Security Council.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
In other words, dividing up somebody else's sovereignty. It would 
be like the United Nations saying, "You know something? Come to 
think of it, Indiana should merge with Illinois." I mean, what 
right would the United Nations have to tell these people what 
they should merge and un-merge?
 
 
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
Well, they're trying to broker a peace. And the fact of the 
matter now is that the Republic of Srpska controls 70 percent of 
the territory of Bosnia. They control 70 percent not because they 
invaded or they occupied it, but because the Serbs were farmers 
and owned most of the land. The Muslims worked in the cities. So 
they didn't *own* big tracts of land.
 
The Zepa area: the news media has told us that that was 
"ethnically cleansed" -- that it was a *city* that was 
"ethnically cleansed" by the Serb army. 40,000 Muslims, the news 
media tell us...
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
And that's a lie? That's a lie they're telling us?
 
 
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
That's a lie: that 40,000 Muslims were forced out of the city of 
Zepa. We went to the front lines. We saw Zepa. And it's not a 
city, it's not even what they call a town. It's a tiny village.
 
The Zepa *area*: there are 4 or 5 Muslim villages. The total 
Muslim population there, in those villages, today, is 
approximately 6 thousand. And they're still living there!
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Mike, from your standpoint, what has the American media and the 
American State Department done in failing the American people? 
(Some of us go even one step further and say they have *lied* to 
the American people.) But what is it that has happened?
 
 
MIKE PAVLOVIC:
The biggest problem that we have with media in America and 
American government: that they involve over there and they don't 
want to solve the problem. *I* believe myself that we can solve 
the problem without killing. Every day: killing and killing and 
killing. We can stop this. And because of *that* reason, America 
should negotiate. Sit around table with President Karadzic and we 
come to some solution. I know one thing: when we want to make 
some deal, we negotiate. And negotiate and negotiate.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Does *our* President Clinton want peace over there? Or let me put 
it as a cynical question: do they need a war there to divert from 
domestic problems? (Of which we can spend the whole hour talking 
about *that*: Whitewater and the whole list, all the way to the 
bottom.)
 
 
MIKE PAVLOVIC:
I don't think that they need that.
 
 
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
President Karadzic faxed this peace offer to President Clinton 
April 22nd. There was no response. *I* faxed it to President 
Clinton again on May 25th. There was no response. Jim talked to 
the man at the Bosnia desk of the State Department -- when was 
that? May 25th?
 
 
JAMES NAGLE:
This was the Friday before Memorial Day weekend. The news stories 
were just coming back that the Serbs in Bosnia were holding U.N. 
hostages. And I asked him if he was aware of the letter from 
President Karadzic proposing a permanent peace. And I don't want 
to say I was stonewalled, but the impression that *I* was left 
with was that this individual was more in touch with getting home 
for a picnic than he was with...
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So in other words, the State Department and the White House did 
not treat you like "semi-diplomats", like a "Jimmy Carter type" 
that'd make peace over there. In other words, your peace mission 
was not encouraged?
 
 
JAMES NAGLE:
Obviously Jimmy Carter is a former president of the United 
States. We're just private citizens, going over there on our own 
time, on our own dime, without being paid, to try to offer a 
solution that hasn't been brought forth before to bring peace to 
the area.
 
 
ROBERT CLEVELAND:
Let me ask a question that puzzles me: you helped President 
Karadzic write this letter of April 22nd wherein he tells 
President Clinton he wants peace. Is that right?
 
 
JAMES NAGLE:
Right.
 
 
ROBERT CLEVELAND:
And it was sent on that same day to President Clinton.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Which was a bad day. I'll tell you why. But go ahead.
 
 
ROBERT CLEVELAND:
Well, aside from that. Now you must know that, in my opinion, 
there isn't anything that goes on in this country that the CIA or 
some intelligence organization in this country knows about. And 
if you were over there and you met with the president of this 
country and he wrote such a letter -- did they ever ask you when 
you came back about anything? Like a de-briefing or what happened 
over there?
 
 
JAMES NAGLE:
No, we weren't ever de-briefed. And obviously, we met with the 
president [of Srpska], we met with his cabinet, we met with the 
leaders of the military. We sat down. We ate with these people. 
We talked with them. And, if nothing else, I would at least 
expect *someone* from the State Department to at least sit down 
with us, to pick our brains to find out what these people were 
like.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
What's your explanation why there was no de-briefing? Nobody, 
when you came back, asked you "what" or "when"?
 
 
JAMES NAGLE:
Not only did they not ask us...
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Did you make some effort to contact these people?
 
 
JAMES NAGLE:
We made a substantial amount of effort. In fact...
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
What? You wrote or faxed the State Department and the White 
House?
 
 
JAMES NAGLE:
Yeah. In fact, we faxed our complete story of our delegation to 
Dave Merrick(sp?) of ABC News. (He's the Nightline reporter that 
covers Bosnia.) We faxed it to his home and to his office.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
And what happened?
 
 
JAMES NAGLE:
No response.
 
We faxed it to CNN Live. No response.
 
We faxed it to WBBM: News Radio 78, Chicago. No response.
 
We faxed it to the Chicago Tribune, the reporter that wrote one 
of the stories that was just in the paper about the Bosnian 
crisis. No response.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
The only one that wrote about it was the suburban paper, the 
Daily Herald. Right?
 
 
JAMES NAGLE:
The Daily Herald has covered it. The Palatine Countryside has 
covered it. The Glen Ellyn News has covered it. The Quincy 
Herald-Whig...
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
What explanation have you formed, from trying to deal with them: 
faxing them, talking with them? What is your opinion as to why 
they gave you the cold shoulder?
 
 
JAMES NAGLE:
My opinion is this: people at the State Department say Karadzic 
has lied so many times before that we can't trust him. And my 
response to that is, before we commit 25 thousand, 50 thousand 
eighteen to nineteen-year-old boys over there, I think we owe it 
to them and their families to at least go over there and address 
the letter where he's discussing peace.
 
In terms of Karadzic "lying" to these people: I think that the 
U.S. and other countries are under the mistaken impression that 
Karadzic is a dictator. I think the U.S. government has dealt 
with him and expected that he has the final say in everything. 
But what they don't, maybe, not realize is that Karadzic has a 
parliament, he has a vice-president, and that he does not have 
the final say.
 
                   [...to be continued...]
 
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