From bigxc@firefly.prairienet.orgFri Jan 20 07:31:40 1995
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 94 22:36:34 CST
From: Brian Redman <bigxc@firefly.prairienet.org>
To: Multiple recipients of list <conspire@argus.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: AIDS: Epidemic or Weapon of War? (3/3)



Feel free to re-distribute to any and all news groups, friends, etc., on 
the condition that this accompanying rider remain in tact.  Dave Emory is 
an anti-fascist researcher, radio talk show host,  public speaker, and 
educator.  You may reach him snail-mail at:  Dave Emory, c/o KFJC Radio 
Station, 12345 El Monte Road, Los Altos Hills, CA  94022.  Mr. Emory's 
well documented educational material is available on audio tape.  A 
catalogue of his tapes and brief synopsis of each tape is available for 
$3.00 postpaid with SASE.  For tapes or catalogue,  contact Archives On 
Audio, P. O. Box 170023, San Francisco, California  94117-0023, or phone 
(415) 346-1840, or e-mail on Internet at <email archives@igc.apc.org>.  
(Mr. Emory makes no money off the sale of these tapes.  They are offered 
purely for study and education.)  Where to hear Dave Emory - A partial 
list of radio stations:
Los Angeles     KPFK 90.7FM     Wednesdays     Midnight to 2:00am
Ann Arbor       WCBN 88.3FM    Fridays             6:00 to 7:00pm
Berkeley           KALX 90.7FM    Fridays             9:00 to 9:30am
SF/Bay Area     KFJC 89.7 FM    Sundays           7:00 to 11:00pm
Santa Cruz        KKUP 91.5FM    Mondays          9:00 to 10:30pm
NJ/NY             WFMU 91.1FM    Tuesdays          6:00 to 7:00pm
 
The following is a transcript of a lecture given by Mr. Dave Emory in 
November, 1991. [Transcriber:  Proper names are spelled phonetically when 
unclear.]
 
                AIDS:  EPIDEMIC OR WEAPON OF WAR?

 
                              Part III
 
        There are a couple of points that I forgot to mention that I will 
bring up briefly.  I wanted to reiterate that in the Dr. Jordan talk you 
heard that San Francisco, New York, and Los Angeles were the main areas 
of infection among the gay population.  Those, not coincidentally in my 
opinion, are the areas where Dr. Wolf Szmuness was administering the 
Hepatitis B trial vaccine program.  Again, you can read about AIDS and 
the Doctors of Death.  That is the title of a book by Dr. Alan Cantwell, 
published by Aries Publishers, 1989.
        Also I wanted to mention that it has been theorized by Dr. 
Strecker that AIDS was spread in Africa through the Small Pox vaccination 
program conducted by the World Health Organization, which has very strong 
links with Fort Detrick and the National Cancer Institute.  So those are 
a couple of details to remember under the circumstances.  
        Now, once again I want to reiterate that the medical and 
scientific evidence is not my long suit.  It would be quite pretentious 
and intellectually dishonest for me to discuss that past a point.  I will 
do the best I can.  
        I also want to emphasize that if you want to ask a general 
questions about the subject material that I deal with, your questions 
needn't be confined to AIDS, under the circumstances.
 
        Question (Q):  I have a two-tiered question.  One is I've read 
the series of articles that Covert Action Information Bulletin did on 
AIDS.  They talked about the five different theories on the origin.  They 
didn't fully discount all of them having something to do with AIDS.  They 
also talked about the African Swine Fever Virus.  They said that in their 
investigation, at least eighty percent of people with AIDS tested 
positive for the African Swine Fever Virus.  Do you believe that it is 
possible that this is what you talk about as being cross-vectoring?  And 
also, a follow up question is, have you read or in your investigations, 
have you seen anything suggesting that a vaccine or solution to AIDS 
might be in existence somewhere?
 
        Answer (A):  Yes, as a matter of fact, there was an article, I 
believe it was in the Alta Mata Star, to answer your last question 
first.  I neglected to mention this during the lecture.  But, it is in 
Radio Free America Program !6 that you can get from Archives on Audio or 
from Paul over here, that the Army's Institute of Infectious Diseases 
mentioned that they had been testing for a vaccine for AIDS or a cure for 
AIDS.  When asked if they had any success, the doctor whose name I've 
forgotten, I think it was Dr. Driscoll but I may be wrong, he had an 
interesting and ambiguous response.  He said that laboratory test results 
don't always pan out when applied in the general population.  So they 
certainly were looking for it as far back as 1986, possibly with some 
success.  
        Now about the African Swine Fever theory, that may very well be.  
If that is correct, that may very well be one of the cross-vectors that's 
involved.  As I mentioned, a couple of physicians from Boston who had 
been doing research into the Swine Fever connection and who had wanted to 
be funded were told by the Department of Agriculture to cool it, not to 
publicize this "for reasons of national security."  So it certainly 
suggests at least the possibility.  
        I personally wasn't that impressed with the covert action 
series.  They touched on some good information, but I also felt they 
pulled their punches.  I've forgotten the name of one of the authors.  It 
was a fellow who writes for the New York Native, a New York daily 
newspaper.  He called me up right after he heard about my Radio Free 
America #16 show.  Frankly, I thought he was something of a fool.  I 
wasn't real impressed.  But he had a lot to do with that series.
 
        Q:  One more question and that is, there is presently in South 
and Central America a cholera epidemic.  Do you think this might be 
related to biological warfare?
 
        A:  It's possible.  I really don't know.  
 
        Q:  Yeah, Dave, I was wondering about, they have been saying on 
certain media sources have been talking about making AIDS a maintainable 
disease like diabetes, if you will.  You know, you take an insulin shot 
to maintain it.  I was wondering what you thought about that.
 
        A:  It's a possibility.  Again, I'm not a doctor or a biologist 
or a geneticist.  So it's a possibility.  They certainly have made some 
progress in some areas with AIDS.  Although, I'm told by people that I 
consider knowledgeable that the drug AZT is really a whammy.  AZT will 
give you AIDS.  It does attack the HIV, but because the protein code on 
the HIV is very similar to the amino acid make-up of the T-cell 
lymphocytes, which are the main things which appear to be attacked by Aat 
when a virus mutates, it takes on the characteristics of already 
pre-existing viruses?  And, is it true that the AIDS virus does not 
necessarily relate to or compare with other existing viruses?
 
        A:  I really don't know that much about the way in which viruses 
mutate from a technical standpoint, nor can I comment again on the AIDS 
virus and the way it mutates.  I have not heard that viruses mutate in 
the same way, or take on the characteristics of other viruses.  Now I 
have been told by people skilled in virology, which by the way is not 
nearly the exact science it's been portrayed.  You can show the same 
virus to two different virologists.  They will agree on the make-up of 
the genome, but they will disagree on the interpretation of where it 
comes from.  
        But the thing that I've been told is that most viruses, many 
viruses anyway, no most viruses eventually adapt in such a way as they 
become symbiotic with their host.  In other words, they mutate in such a 
way as they don't sicken the host, which obviously benefits the host and 
they mutate in such a way as the host's immune system does not, 
therefore, attack the virus.  So it's mutually beneficial.  But that is 
as much as I know.          Again, at the risk of seeming a little 
repetitive, not being a physician or a microbiologist or a geneticist, my 
ability to respond to these questions intelligently is limited.  What I 
have done is to present what I believe is historical and political 
evidence pointing very strongly to AIDS as a biological warfare weapon 
and to recommend some of the medical people who have come forward with 
these theories.  The one thing that I do feel reasonably intelligent 
talking about, of course, is the epidemiology because I think that 
involves a good deal of common sense.  But my feeling is that it is up to 
the medical and scientific community to carry the search on past this point.
 
        Q:  Has Dr. Cantwell received any repercussions since?
 
        A:  I don't know about Cantwell.  I do know that Dr. Robert 
Strecker was quite shaken when his brother mysteriously died who had been 
doing the research with him.  I got a call from Strecker once.  He had 
heard about my work and I wasn't particularly impressed with the guy.  He 
is an extreme right winger.  But on the other hand, I think that the fear 
of God got put in him, because his brother, who I believe his name was 
John, had been working on the research with him.  All of a sudden he had 
died very suddenly.
 
 
        Q:  This is a somewhat broad, maybe naive question that seems to 
come up when I lay all this stuff on people who I've managed to trap.
 
        A:  You'll get a lot of broad, naive questions when you try to 
lay this stuff on people.
 
        Q:  Well, it's one that I have difficulty answering.  Why would 
the security establishment go to all this trouble to "waste a bunch of 
losers?"
 
        A:  Well, you've just answered your own question.  I tried to 
address that as best I could in the final portion of the talk.  These 
people are considered out-groups.  In a shrinking economy, I believe an 
economy that is going to be completely devastated before much longer, 
there aren't going to be enough goodies to go around.  This country 
operates on the law of supply and demand.  Supply and demand must be kept 
in line.  If there are too many workers for the available jobs and if 
there are not enough goodies for the people that want them, then supply 
and demand will be brought in line.  We will have fewer workers to fit 
the jobs and we will have fewer people competing for the goodies, if it 
gets to be too much of a strain.  It will also by reducing the population 
reduce the strain on the society as a whole.  I think the basic 
motivations in my opinion for eliminating people in this country are the 
same as the motivations for eliminating similar groups in Europe under 
the fascist period.  I think you could ask the same question of Hitler.  
Why would Hitler go to all this trouble to eliminate "losers?"  Precisely 
because the people that are viewed as losers by our national security 
establishment, people of color, gays, intravenous drug users, 
hemophiliacs, Native Americans, they are viewed as losers.  I'm not 
saying they are losers, far from it.  But they are viewed that way by the 
far right and they want to get rid of them for exactly that reason.  The 
Nazis had a concept that was called "useless bread gobblers."  And that 
is the real answer.
 
        Q:  I think we can all find some reason why we think that AIDS 
has a suspicious or questionable origin.  I'm a scientist by trade.  
Sometimes we do things to confuse the competition as far as programming, 
rewrite, obfuscated code that nobody can understand except us, or if it 
is electronics, we do things in weird sort of ways so that nobody can 
understand.  But one thing in common is that when youevery case of AIDS 
in the United States, if it wasn't somebody who got infected by 
intravenous means as in a blood transfusion was always traced back to 
drug usage, that actually certain combinations of drugs that people used 
to have a good time with the virus in their system or some other type of 
microorganism that actually triggers HIV.  Do you have any comment on that?
 
        A:  I am familiar with Duesburg's theories up to a point.  He is 
a researcher up at the University of California at Berkeley.  I am not in 
a position, again, to comment critically or in an intelligent fashion on 
scientific and medical evidence past a point.  But one of the things that 
makes me skeptical, at least to a certain extent, of his claims is that 
if recreational drugs in combination with certain other organisms are 
involved in AIDS, how come American Indians are getting it?  There is 
drug usage on Native American reservations.  It should also be noted that 
many Native American cultures are also far more tolerant of homosexuality 
than the culture as a whole.  But, on the other hand, with the exception 
of alcohol and perhaps some other drugs, I would tend to think that the 
drug usage on Native American reservations would be very different than 
the rest of the population.  Beyond that, how about the results in the 
Third World.  I wonder whether Duesburg's study really takes into account 
the lifestyle, the habits of people in Haiti or in Africa or other places 
in the Third World.  For that reason, I'm skeptical.  Because at this 
point there are enough people who have AIDS all around the world that 
would come from very different cultures and consequently would have very 
different lifestyles that at least from my position as a relative naive, 
I would tend to be skeptical of that.  
 
        Q:  Well, what he says is that AIDS in Africa is a far cry 
different than AIDS in the United States.  For instance, one thing that 
he says is that in Zaire, for example, where AIDS is primarily 
transmitted heterosexually that it doesn't kill at the same rate.  There 
a person may have the virus and may live twenty-five or thirty years.  In 
the meantime the average African in that area also have other parasitic 
organisms in their system that would kill the average person in Western 
society.  But they seem to live quite normally with this in their system.
 
        A:  Well, again, I can't comment on this stuff from an expert 
standpoint as I've already indicated.  But I would be very skeptical of 
Duesburg's claim that people can live twenty-five or thirty years because 
we haven't known about this disease that long, just as a matter of fact.
 
        Q:  I was wondering if in all your studies, have you ever found 
reason to believe that declassified information may be used as a method 
of spreading disinformation among people willing to seek out this kind of 
thing?
 
        A:  That has always been the case.  The national security 
establishment of this country always cloaks its secrets relatively 
effectively.  I'm glad you brought that up.  That's one of the reasons 
that I am very leery about touching a lot of the scientific and medical 
evidence because there are a lot of contradictory theories around, many 
of them, I suspect, disinformation efforts by the national security 
establishment.  I, myself, was talking about AIDS.  I remember speaking 
many times with the late Mae Brussel in the early 1980s, saying that we 
were convinced that AIDS whatever it was, this mysterious infection, 
which first turned up in American homosexuals was some sort of biological 
warfare weapon.  That's why the historical evidence, the development of 
things from a historical and political standpoint is what I focus on.  
There is, for example, no ambiguity about the National Cancer Institute 
having its Frederick research facility run by Litton Biomedics or that in 
1971 it, that is to say Fort Detrick, was turned over to the National 
Cancer Institute.  Or that in 1969 we have the House Appropriations 
Subcommittee hearings for defense budget for fiscal 1970, which again 
Paul has a copy of.  So that's why I stick with that kind of 
information.  That is primarily my long suit.  I am very suspicious of a 
lot of the scientific and medical information that has been generated 
about AIDS, including the notion after six years of study that oh yeah, 
we've found this case in Britain in 1959.  But, it's a good point.  I'm 
glad you brought it up.
 
        Q:  I want to thank you for this good information.  I have two 
questions.  The first one is regarding the American Red Cross and where 
you see them in all of this when the unthe inoculation against biological 
warfare is a classic example of what I call food for thought and grounds 
for further research.  Often inoculation programs are used to vector 
people, in response to an earlier question.  So it's something to think 
about, but again I can't give you a hard answer.
 
        Q:  Thank you.
 
        A:  You're welcome.
 
        Q:  Hi.  I was wondering with Magic Johnson getting HIV positive 
and your speculation back in 1983 or 1984 with the studies of how to make 
the disease more communicable, and I'm wondering if this might be a 
higher consciousness to get the public's awareness towards it as 
something that is highly communicable.
 
        A:  I really can't say.  Obviously I don't know Magic Johnson.  
The accounts that have appeared in the press, both for Magic Johnson and 
people who claim to have known him well, apparently he was quite the 
ladies' man.  As the Lakers would go on the road, apparently he had a lot 
of one night stands.  He was very sexually prolific in this regard.  By 
his own account, he just was careless.  So I don't really know if one 
could consider there to be a conspiratorialogical aspect to Magic 
Johnson's infection.  Certainly it is publicizing the disease.  Certainly 
it is scaring heterosexuals.  Heterosexuals started flocking to get 
tested for HIV in a big, big way.  One of the things that I've wondered 
about, too, this is something of an aside, when you go to get tested for 
HIV, they take blood.  They stick something into you.  If the government 
knows who you are and doesn't like you and their records are extensive, 
then they could also either vector you at that point or they could say 
you were HIV positive when in fact you weren't.  That has a very 
devastating psychological effect and professional effect on many people.  
It's very difficult to get medical insurance or increasingly difficult to 
get medical insurance if you are HIV positive.  So I wonder.  I wonder 
whether the testing could in fact be used to spread the disease or nail 
certain individuals.
 
        Q:  Okay.  I had two other questions.  Are you familiar with 
General Prouty back in the 1960s.
 
        A:  Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty.  Yes, he was in charge of Special 
Operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the early 1960s.  He also was 
Air Force Focal Point Officer for quite some time.  That is to say he was 
the Air Force Officer, and again he was a Colonel, who was the liaison 
between the CIA and the Air Force for CIA covert operations requiring air 
units.  He did some excellent work on the Kennedy assassination.  He also 
wrote one of the best books on the CIA, called The Secret Team:  The CIA 
and Its Allies in Control of the World.  
        I have accessed Prouty's material in a number of Archive shows, 
primarily the Guns of November and Addenda.  He did some excellent work 
in the 1960s and early 1970s.  On the other hand, he is sort of thrown 
his lot in with the space aliens, so to speak.  He is on the Liberty 
Lobby's twenty-four member populist action committee.  His work has gone 
down hill, in my opinion.  
 
        Q:  I was looking to see how reliable his writings were.
 
        A:  His earlier work is reliable and his views on the Kennedy 
assassination and the Vietnam war.  Prouty is someone I would rely on 
when he is talking, these days he is not that reliable.  In the old days 
he had done excellent work.  But when he is talking about his own 
experiences in the military I think he can be discredible, regardless of 
his affiliation with Liberty Lobby, which is Neo-Nazi and which I have no 
use for.
 
        Q:  And one last question.  Back in the 1960s, it would be about 
the time I was one year old, there was an experiment done on some San 
Francisco protesters with the family name of Nevin.  I was wondering if 
you know anything about it.
 
        A:  Nevins.  That is the name of the people, they were not in San 
Francisco, but that is the name of the fellow at Stanford whose father 
died from the Seratia experiments in which the barge was towed around San 
Francisco Bay in 1950.  
        By the way, I should note that in Dr. Jordan's speech or in his 
talk, he confused two biological warfare experiments:  One, the Seratia 
in San Francisco in which a barge was towed around spewing this 
microorganism into the wind in San Francisco harbor; and two, the test on 
the New York City subway system because in 1950 San Franciso didn't have 
a subway.  So he just basically fused a synapse on that.  But that is the 
experiment in which Mr. Nevins died.
 
        Q:  Thank you.
 
        A:  Okay.
 
        Q:  If what you say is true, then can't the people who are 
responsible for this simply bring two more pieces of genetic material 
together and create some other disease and kill everybody even if AIDS 
was cured?
 
        A:  That is a good question and that is my fear.  That is exactly 
why I came forward with Radio Free America #16 and this whole line of 
inquiry.  Because my feeling is there are things a lot worse than AIDS 
that have probably been created.  I can't prove it.  But it wouldn't 
surprise me.  There has been discussion in military ciro were permitted 
to participate in that.
 
        Q:  May I ask one last question?
 
        A:  Sure.
 
        Q:  The latest issue of Rolling Stone talks about Bangkok as a 
sex center for Asia.  They talk about how one out of every fifty people 
in Thailand is a "sex worker" and how many of them are coming down with 
HIV and that hundreds of thousands of Japanese businessmen are visiting 
Thailand as a sexual vacation.  Could this be part of the plan to get rid 
of Japanese competition?
 
        A.  I doubt it.  I doubt it very seriously.  It might be a 
windfall.  But the thing is the Japanese big capitol at this point is 
international.  For example, people are aware of the damage being done to 
the American automobile industry by Japanese competition.   But there is 
massive involvement by the big three auto makers in Japanese automobile 
production.  
        The Mazda, for example, is manufactured by the Toyo Kogyo Company 
which is a machine tool company which is owned by the Ford Motor Company, 
the controlling interest anyway.  When you buy a Mazda, you are buying a 
Ford.  Big capitol has always been more or less international.  It is 
much more so today.  
        One of the reasons why I did the programs Uncle Sam and the 
Swastika, Uncle Sam and El Duche, and the program about Japanese fascism, 
Radio Free America #10, is to point out these international links of big 
capitol.  I would tend to think that infecting Bangkok with AIDS in order 
to reduce the Japanese competition would not have much to do with it.  At 
this point, the Japanese have the United States by the short hairs.  
They're supporting our debt.  If we take any action against the Japanese, 
they are just going to stop supporting our debt, which also would be 
mutually destructive for them, because then they are not going to be able 
to market their products in the United States.  So I would doubt that 
under the circumstances.
        
        Q:  I'm wondering what you know about the concentration camps 
that have been built in the United States and what organization Global 
2000 has to do with this AIDS epidemic.
 
        A:  I don't know anything about Global 2000.  As I recall that is 
the organization founded by Sid Bass.  I'm not absolutely positive.  I 
can't identify Global 2000.  Is that the environmental organization 
that's involved with this biosphere?
 
        Q:  One of their programs is to reduce the population of the 
earth drastically.
 
        A:  Well, I'm not familiar with the organization.  So I cannot 
actually give you a definitive answer to that.  But as far as 
concentration camps in the United States, that has been a contingency 
plan that has been set up for a long time.  One of the things that came 
out during the Nixon administration was that there was a plan afoot by 
far right wing activists in the military and intelligence community to 
set up a provocation at the Republican Convention in San Diego, blow it 
up and thereby probably assassinate Richard Nixon in order to serve as a 
pretext for cancelling the elections and interning people in camps.  
        During the Iran/Contra scandal, one of the most controversial 
aspects that came out was the so called Rex 84 or Operation Night Train 
Martial Law Contingency Plan in which some twenty million people were to 
be interned in concentration camps.  This in turn was based on a plan to 
intern upwards of twenty million Black people in the event of an uprising 
by so called Black militants in the 1960s and 1970s.  So these plans are 
very real.  
        There has also been a lot of discussion about using closed 
military bases to house "drug offenders" who then would be put to work in 
work camps.  They are talking about, again, upwards of twenty million 
under the circumstances.  These "drug offenders" would work for private 
corporations who would maintain these camps.  In turn, the corporations 
would get the profits from their labor as long as they continued to fund 
the establishment of other institutions.  
        Radio Free America #32 has a good discussion of Operation Night 
Train.  There is material available from the Christic Institute about 
that.  You can read about it also in a number of different publications.  
I would recommend Covert Action Information Bulletin #33.  There is a 
very fine article in there called FEMA and the National Security 
Council.  It is by a woman named Diana Reynolds.  That will go into that 
and the development of this to a considerable extent.  There is also 
discussion in Radio Free America #23 about the early martial law 
contingency plans under Richard Nixon.  That, in turn, if you can find 
the book, it draws on the book The Glass House Tapes, published in soft 
cover by the Avon Press, copyright 1973.  That's put out by the Citizens 
Research and Investigating Commission.  That will give you some hard 
information about that.
 
        Q:  Thanks.  I think it was the last few days.  The Cuban
Government is actually locking up people who are testing positive for HIV
virus.  As soon as anyone becomes of an age where they are sexually active
are immediately incarcerated for this if they are tested and found
positive.  They are immediately incarcerated in this semi-fancy
sanitariums.  The Cuban Government is bragging about how well this program
is working on curbing the proliferation of AIDS in their country.  I was
wondering if maybe you thought that we are watching them closely or our
government is watching them closely. 
 
        A:  There has been a proposal.  In fact, one of the addenda to 
Radio Free America #16 talks about, I believe it was Sweden's proposal 
for AIDS, which was to take all AIDS patients and quarantine them on an 
island, basically in a huge concentration camp, which is what is being 
done in Sweden.  It wouldn't surprise me.  It wouldn't surprise me.  And 
again, the article from the Sunday Examiner Chronicle from February 9, 
1986 with which I concluded the lecture this evening, the tape of the 
reading of that article, I think certainly points in that direction.
 
        Q:  All right, David, I have like two questions regarding money, 
the thing that seems to make all this go.  One is how do you explain the 
amount of money, well there has been quite a bit that's been going into 
AIDS research if it's something which is caused by the government and 
there's all that money in [unclear] government agency?
 
        A:  Well, as I said earlier, I think that one of the possible 
goals of AIDS was to serve as a pretext for basically a gene race, much 
like the arms race.  Certainly biotechnology and research into it has 
been greatly spurred by the advent of AIDS, I believe the invention of 
AIDS.  One of the things I find amusing about ACT UP and some of the more 
militant gay groups who are constantly talking about "We want more 
government funding for AIDS" is that I think there has been a lot of 
government funding for AIDS, specifically to make it.  And I think they 
may find that if the government begins funding AIDS even more there will 
be fewer of them around.
 
        Q:  That's the answer to the second part.
 
        A:  Okay.
 
        Q:  Hi.  I was wondering if you have any information on the 
organization called Porack.
 
        A:  I'm not familiar with it.
 
        Q:  Okay.  This is the police officers' standard training that 
was developed by the FBI in the early 1971 - 1972 and then the formation 
of intelligence officers throughout the United States within the police 
departments and the funds connected to that.
 
        A:  The Nixon administration specifically using the Law 
Enforcement Assistance Administration was very active in promoting that 
sort of thing.  There have been discussions.  The aforementioned Glass 
House Tapes talks about it.  And there has been a fair amount of 
publicity about that, about really the militarization of domestic police.
 
        Q:  Yeah, I noticed also with the special units, we know them as 
SWAT teams and stuff like that, originally when those officers responded 
to domestic situations, they responded in full dress uniform.  As 
recently as in the last couple of months, these NOW teams respond in 
military fatigues at all times and they wear the hooded masks.  Can you 
respond to that?
 
        A:  I think basically the old expression, what goes around, comes 
around, which is Emory's first principle, has a lot to do with that.  
Ultimately, as the economy collapses and as the social dislocation 
resulting from that grows, I think basically there is going to be a need 
to keep civil order to a greater extent.  The trend of the militarization 
of domestic police which began during the anti-war movement, the 
anti-Vietnam war movement, is accelerating at this point.  
        It is my feeling, for example, I've done a lot of work on gun 
control and there is a very strong CIA connection to gun control, 
specifically, the leading Hand Gun Control, Incorporated and the other 
supposedly competing organization.  Hand Gun Control, Incorporated was 
founded by William O. Wells, a newly retired "former" CIA agent, who 
himself owns two pistols and a sharps bore shard rifle.  He has been 
greatly assisted in his efforts by William Colby, former CIA Director.  
Wells is very active with the supposedly competing organization as well.  
William Colby is real big on gun control.  He says he learned about the 
dangers of hand guns while serving with the CIA.  William Colby was 
Director of the Phoenix Program for quite some time in which by 
conservative estimates some forty thousand Vietnamese were dispatched, 
mostly using silenced twenty-two and twenty-five caliber automatics.  So 
it doesn't surprise me that he would learn about the dangers of hand guns 
under the circumstances.  
        I, myself, am opposed to gun control.  I see many of these lone 
nuts going off and shooting.  I've discussed on my program the fellow who 
went off in Colene, Texas.  A postal worker went off and shot a female 
former supervisor.  There was another postal worker who went off.  
        I've done a lot of work on what I call Purdy's last stand.  
Patrick Purdy, the follow who killed those students, the young Asian 
students at the Cleveland Elementary School in Stockton.  Purdy had Aryan 
Nations literature on him at the time of an earlier arrest.  He had Aryan 
Nations graffiti on his weapons, clothing, and in his room.  He had 
previously been a member of the Moonies.  A teacher from the Cleveland 
Elementary School who was going to testify in front of the California 
Assembly received a threatening letter with a swastika letterhead.  It 
should also be noted that the spokesperson for the Stockton School 
District who handled the media was up until 1985 the spokesperson for the 
United States Army Western Command.  
        So I think that the militarization of the police, toposing the 
[unclear] advances in genetic engineering, etc.  That virus is, according 
to my sources, virtually identical to the HIV II with the exception that 
a piece of genetic material called a stop codon has been introduced right 
in the middle of one gene.  That is the smoking gene in his opinion.
 
        Q:  Is the HIV II what is commonly referred to as the HIV virus?
 
        A:  There are three variants that have been discovered so far 
that I'm aware of, I, II, and III.  This number II is very similar to the 
SIV, in all probability indicating that HIV II is a man-made virus.
 
        Q:  Is this assuming that HIV is, you know, we hear about it 
mutating.  In other words, is HIV II the main cause of AIDS, one of the 
causes of AIDS, or is it unclear?
 
        A:  It is one of the variants of the virus that has been reported 
to be causing AIDS in Africa.
 
        Q:  Hi.  It seems that people infected with the Nazi ideology...
 
        A:  That's a good way of putting it.  Go ahead...
 
        Q:  ...that they would find it irresistible, the temptation to 
fool around with genetic engineering.
 
        A:  Well, Mengela was doing that at Auschwitz.  We know he was 
doing experiments with genes, with twins and so forth to examine the 
genetic factors.  Absolutely.
 
        Q:  Do you know of any further research or any clues of what they 
might be doing in that area?
 
        A:  Well, I see the whole situation AIDS against that 
background.  That is why I began the discussion with the historical 
connections of the United States to things like Unit 731, the Gehlen 
organization, plus we've had that in our own country for quite some 
time.  It should be noted that the idea of genetics, and this is 
something that I probably should have brought up in the lecture proper 
and I'm glad you brought this up, the whole idea of genetics and genetic 
research is inextricably linked with the concept of eugenics, which in 
turn is very closely connected with the mental hygiene movement.  The 
mental hygiene movement and the eugenics movement have led to 
euthanasia.  The euthanasia programs in Nazi Germany were the programs 
that paved the way for the extermination programs that followed later.  
I've done a miscellaneous Archive show about that.  Genetic engineering I 
think also figures into the concept of eugenics in a big, big way.  If 
you can make a super race then you might do that.  [unclear] Du Pont, for 
example, who was an avid supporter of Adolph Hitler advocated in the 
1920s creating using eugenics to create a race of super men which would 
have tremendous intellects, which would be as physically fit as Marines.  
So it is a concept that has gone on for some time.  It certainly would 
prove irresistible.
 
        Q:  It seems like it's the other side of the coin, their 
fascination with defective genetic groups.  The other side of that is a 
fascination with super qualified or endowed.
 
        A:  One of the things that should be borne in mind with the issue 
of genetic engineering is that the military always gets any technology 
first.  They advance it secretly well beyond what the civilian population 
is aware of.  Now in 1985, okay, six plus years ago, there was an article 
which was published in many newspapers, I remember specifically the New 
York Times, of the results of a genetic engineering experiment.  
        What they did was they took a gene from a firefly.  They were 
able to splice it into a tobacco plant.  What they got was a tobacco leaf 
that glowed like a firefly and they showed it.  Now the implications of 
that are absolutely enormous.  That is a gene introduced, taken from one 
phylum and placed into another phylum, a whole other category of 
organisms, and it produced the same physical characteristic in the other 
phylum that it did in the first.  
        You start thinking about what they might be doing with, you know, 
taking genes from Apes and putting them into people, or lizards or 
salamanders.  Who knows what they might be doing?  Among the many 
thoughts that I've had about these periodic sightings of things like Big 
Foot or there was supposed to be some sort of lizard man or alligator man 
down in some place in Georgia or Florida.  
        Now a lot of that, no doubt, is being generated by the local 
chamber of commerce.  They get the word out in Tent Flap, Arkansas that 
there is a lizard man running around.  Basically, all the hockey pucks 
from fifty miles around are going to come in.  The local country store is 
going to sell a lot of beer and a lot of ammunition and a lot of 
sandwiches.  Not only the local chambers of commerce are responsible to a 
certain extent for that, but I wouldn't entirely discount that we may be 
seeing the results at some point of the genes from one type of animal 
introduced into people, and then producing something like that. 
        I am going to be doing a lecture in the months to come about 
so-called UFOs, which are very real and don't come from outer space.  The 
only thing that comes from outer space are the people who think they come 
from outer space.  I'm going to be talking about those as devices for 
social control.  They have a very real physical history.  
        It began with German experimentation toward the closing days of 
the war.  Two circular flying objects used by the Germans as 
anti-aircraft weapons, one called the Fireball and the other called Ball 
Lightening, were recorded as a matter of history to have been used.  The 
organization that developed them was a German aeronautical research 
facility called Fluwkfuwnkforshunkshunstalter Oberfafenhafen, a typically 
compact German name, as I've said.  
        But when you think about the possibilities, okay, suppose the 
ozone layer goes, suppose the economy collapses, suppose the Green House 
effect takes place, suppose the polar ice caps begin to melt.  Right now 
in the southern most parts of South America, people are going blind from 
the ozone layer.  They are being blinded by the hole in the ozone layer.  
Think about all these things worsening.  There is talk of global warming 
melting the polar ice caps to the point where coastal cities become 
completely inundated.  If this happens, you won't see the Forty-Niners 
playing at Candlestick Park.  The only thing that will be playing at 
Candlestick Park are the sea hawks and the dolphins.  
        Now, you think about the possibilities there and those are really 
terrifying.  Think about what people will be willing to do if they want 
to combine say genetic engineering with UFOs.  Suppose they take a gene 
from a salamander or a lizard or something and figure out how to 
introduce that into a human being. edical records or anything?
 
        A:  There probably would be.  I don't know what kinds of records 
were kept.  And of course Wolfe Szmuness died of cancer in 1983, so he 
isn't around to tell us.  I should think that would be relatively easy to 
check.  But again, I would read the book AIDS and the Doctors of Death by 
Alan Cantwell, which goes into it at greater 
length.                          
 
        Q:  The other question I have is are you advocating, or did I 
misinterpret your saying that people should not be tested for AIDS?
 
        A:  No, I'm not advocating that.  But I have thoughts about the 
ambiguity of having somebody stick a needle in you.  They could be giving 
you AIDS or if they want to make life miserable and damned near 
impossible they can tell you you have HIV, which first of all is going to 
really, really demoralize people and undermine them psychologically.
 
        Q:  Why would a doctor, your personal doctor, do that to you?
 
        A:  Well, I'm not saying a personal doctor, but at a clinic, if 
you are someone, say a political activist or a member of an ethnic or 
racial group that the government does not like, and the authorities in 
command now do not like certain groups, this would be one way of 
undermining you, even if you didn't have the virus.  You would have a 
tough time getting insurance.  You would have a tough time getting 
employment.  It would eat on you psychologically.  Your spouse might 
divorce you.  It could have a tremendous effect, even if you didn't have 
it.  And then if they decided to give it to you, that could have an even 
more tremendous effect.  No, I don't advocate not getting tested.  But at 
the same time it might be a good idea to get yourself tested under 
another name rather than your own.  That is what I would recommend.
 
        Q:  Your talk about the genetic [engineering], it triggered a 
memory of an article in the Chronicle.  I think it was a couple of years 
ago.  [It] was about combining humans with apes genetically and making a 
slave race.  It even went into the all the ramifications of well, what if 
your daughter wanted to date one of these guys, the whole thing.  It 
really made an impression on me.
 
        A:  I've known a few of those myself.
 
        Q:  Well, it really made an impression on me and I wonder.  That 
was a while back and they were talking about that very seriously.
 
        A:  In fact, that's true.  That's a good point.  The Vatican even 
was ruling that they thought that was immoral.  This has tremendous 
economic implications.  The idea is that if you could cross-breed say a 
man and an ape, you could get something that wouldn't technically be 
human, therefore, wouldn't have any human rights.  One of the things to 
think about is that this could then be used to perform manual labor.  It 
would put a lot of people out of work and perhaps into liquidation 
centers, as I've indicated, or "decontamination centers."
 
        Q:  Frightening.
 



 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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    Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"        
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